How many people who claim to be Christians know the history of Halloween? How many people who claim to be Christians know what the Bible says about it?
CC: How many Christians think liberal people are the antichrist???
JB: A lot of them don't know, because they are not taught. Most want to be spoon fed, and don't want to take time to look it up for themselves either in the Scriptures or in the encyclopedia.
JA: What is so amazing is that the evil side of Halloween becomes more and more obvious every year and every year there are still the 'excuses' of - it's all fun.
GH: here is a little something I wrote on my blog:http://neshama-ancientpath.blogspot.com/2009/10/halloween-is-just-really-fun-holiday.html
MF: Why is it evil when it comes from a religion other than Christianity? I bet you wouldn't dare say the same with regard to Christmas...
HB: Christmas is also pagan, MF! Comes from the worship of Mithra, the god of the sun ... greek and pagan origins sorry (see Wikipedia)
GH: MF, to whom are you addressing?
MF: Oh, I already knew that. In fact, other than the carryover Hebrew holidays (which most Christians don't celebrate because of hundreds of years of Anti-Jewish sentiment by Christianity), Christianity doesn't have any real religious holidays that it didn't steal from other religions... mostly those that Christianity violently stamped out as heretical in order to establish greater control of the uneducated masses.
JA: More than pagan, Halloween is a high holy day for Wiccans aka Satanists - who probably don't celebrate the birthday of Jesus anytime - let alone Christmas ...
GH: MF, I'm not sure anyone said that something is necessarly evil just because it came from another religion.
MF: GH, mostly I am addressing MS, who is one of my oldest & dearest friends, because we're both strong enough to entertain an educated discussion such as this. But also to Julie, because I'm a little disturbed by the classification of a Non-Christian holiday as "evil" when it comes from another religion.
MS: halloween, easter, and christmas are NOT Christian holidays...
GH: MF, didn't JA say 'the evil side of halloween'? Is that the same as saying haloween is evil *because* if comes from another religion? I don;t know Julie and I can;t speak for her though, lol.
You don't see that halloween has an evil side?
MF: Wiccans are not Satanists. Their faith actually has nothing to do with the Devil that Christians believe in. Satanism was a counter culture movement of the late 1960's by a charlatan who wanted to lash out at the organized Christian Church.
And how would you classify Christian denominations that do not also celebrate Yeshuah of Nazareth's day of birth, because they see it as an unholy vanity? Are they evil as well?
GG: Apparently not many and their preachers are not telling them. They are more worried about the numbers and the money that they will lose if they told the congregation the truth.
GH: MF,according to Encyclopedia.com's Electric Library:
...spirits were believed to roam the earth on this evening, playing tricks on human beings to mark the season of diminishing sunlight. Bonfires were lit, offerings were made of dainty foods and sweets, and people would disguise themselves as one of the roaming spirits, to avoid demonic persecution.
Every religion probably has its own definition of 'evil' but I think there is a concensus that 'evil' means doing harm to another. Every religion probably has its own definitions of what 'harm' is, but this definition I quoted from seems pretty straightforward.
As to the satanists view of halloween:
After one's own birthday, the two major Satanic holidays are Walpurgisnacht (May 1st) and Halloween (or All Hallow's Eve).
-The Satanic Bible by Anton Levey
JZ: See, and here I thought Boxing Day was the work of Satan. Well, that and Election Day.
MS: Halloween is a confluence of antecedents: satanic, wiccan, druidic, celtic, pagan, catholic...none of which are positive from a Judeo-Christian perspective...
MF: No, GH. I do not. There are plenty of other religious philosophies around the world that celebrate a communion with the spirits of the departed. The Feast of Samhain is a time that the Celts of Ireland believed to be the time of the year when the realm of the living & the realm of the departed were closest together, and they could celebrate reunion with their departed.
The whole "evil" aspect of Halloween was added as a scare tactic by the Catholic church in the Medieval period to bring the Celts into line with Church doctrine, hence the evolution of the holiday we have today.
Halloween has no more an evil side than the shameless consumerism that is perpetrated upon the masses having tarnished the tradition of Christmas. And don't get me wrong, I despise what has happened to Christmas.
GH: What followers of the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are told in Torah is that we are not to worship YHVH as the pagans worship their gods. We are told He wants to be related to in a different way than those ways and that we are not to mix His way with other ways. I do not think it matters whether the other way is 'evil'or not by conventional definitions. I think it has more to do with YHVH declaring Himself above all others, and our relationship with Him diferent than the relationship others have with their gods.
MS: Halloween is indeed a negative influence...as is the commercialism and erroneous history that is part of christmas...
MF: GH, you fail to see my point. Anton Levey was that charlatan that I mentioned, and you need only do a little more research into his life to see his motivation for creating Satanism. It's as much as sham as Scientology.
GH: I am curious MF, as to the timing of the origins of The Feast of Samhain you mentioned compared to the Celt's practice I mentioned. The one I mentioned does sound evil.
And I did understand your point. My mentioning the Satanist view was not in response to what wicans believe. I know the difference. I also know that many misguided people adhere to the principals of satanism, no matter the reason for its creation. But I understand it is diferent than wicca.
MF: You have to remember that the belief that a spirit realm co-existed with their own was a fundamental part of their culture, not unlike the Greeks, the Norse, the Egyptians, and numerous other cultures that existed long before the advent of Christianity. In fact, I do believe that Christians also believe in "spirit" world of sorts co-existing with their own. Why else would people believe in guardian angels or demons always tempting them to the dark side of their soul?
I'm not trying to shake anyone's faith with this discussion, but too many Christians come at these topics from a position of fear & ignorance.
MS is one of the smartest followers of Yeshuah I know, and I am proud that he is my friend despite our difference in religious ideology.
Thanks for the lively discussion, MS!
And to all of you, may the blessing of whatever Divinity you place your faith be upon you. Good night.
GH: Yes, MS, thanks. Too bad it couldn't be continued...
MF, thanks for the dialog. Maybe we'll meet up again on another one of MS's discusions!
GG: Wow who would have thought such a discussion would be necessary for any believer. It should be obvious to anyone that Halloween is pagan. Why look at how people dress up for it. Yes, some of the costumes are cute and are not so obvious but a good majority of the people dress up as witches, druids, skeletons and the likes of which are all the scriptures warn us about not to be involved with.
It is horrible that we even have to discuss this kind of stuff. But people want a sloppy grace to take them, zap them out of this world, so that they don't have to be here when the so called Rapture takes places....why they can just be raptured right out of here while the rest of the world goes to hell in a hand basket. WRONG!!!! We are all going to be purified and these people who think Halloween is okay to celebrate and it is okay to dress up and do trick and treating, and then bring their children home and have to check their candy to see if drugs or razors have been injected into them....well, what will it take for the church to get it right.
THE CHURCH HAS NO MORE BUSINESS HOSTING A FALL FESTIVAL, A SMOKE SCREEN OF A HALLOWEEN PARTY, THAN A SATANIST HAS OF HOSTING A SUKKOT FEAST DAY!
You can never mix what belongs to YHWH with the things of this world and come out blessed on the other end. Even if you think you have been blessed, it is only a matter of time, only a moment of time, we all stand to lose everything. Then we will all be repenting and asking for forgiveness for walking in the ways of the world.
Halloween is only one aspect of this. It is not just a holiday I am speaking of here. I am speaking of how the world has infested itself into believers and we just think that it is okay when it is oh so WRONG!!!
CS: Hi,I am a Christian,I do not celebrate Halloween,and the church never encouraged me to do it.I came from Italy and the prevalent religion came from the catholic church,they celebrate all saint day,which I believe it is wrong and so it is Halloween(we do not have this feast in Italy).Maybe history shows that there was Anti-Semitism,but the church today prays for the peace of Israel.By church I mean the body of Christ,the people,by calling myself a christian I mean a follower of Christ not a religion.I do believe there is a spirit world,angels and demons,the Bible conform that.There is a natural world where we human live and a supernatural world,the spirit world influence our mind for evil or for good.
Some christian during Halloween chose to have alternative parties for their kids,or to give to the kids that come at the door,booklets of the gospel and candy,because the kids do not know about Satanic holyday,they only see candy, treats
MS: I will have to answer more on this later...
JZ: AMEN! My wife 100% agrees with you (re: election day)
GH: I never said to stop the discussion...
MF: Regardless of what Anton Levey states, Wiccans worship Satan in the form of the "oak god" and
Halloween is a combination of 3 holidays - Samhain, which is the true source of Halloween; All Saint's Day & All Souls' Day (the Catholic Church's version of Samhain). With the exception of the Catholic Church still celebrating All Saints' Day, the "celebrations" have been rolled into a single day/night.
SC: See the way I look at it, if they (Christians) are going to celebrate other pagan holidays, why not celebrate them all!
JA: In defense of myself ... heheheh ... I lived in a place where Halloween was a high holy day of Wiccans and Satanists (there's really no difference except if one wants to believe there are white witches and black witches, and that ONE man Anton Levay started it all - if my Bible serves me, Satan started it all in the Garden and even before in the spiritual realm when he wanted to be 'like God') where I personally knew of child sacrifices - either you believe that this holiday is detestable as God says in Deuteronomy 18:10-12 or you don't - it's always a choice who we serve and who we believe - as Bob Dylan says, 'you gotta serve somebody - either the devil or the LORD' - all religions come from someone other than the most High God - YHVH - and since I believe in the devil and him being the god of this world, I do believe that all other religions are not of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, inherently evil and do not offer salvation out of a loving, forgiving Father who desires us to have a relationship with Him ... Thank you, Michael and Gail for reminding us all that the worship of dead people is forbidden, the basis of the religion of Egypt that YHVH called is people up out of ... Let's also remember that Jesus/Yeshua - WWJD?? - never celebrated Halloween nor any other holiday that comes from the pagan nations around us - I also believe that a spirit world co-exists around us, there are plenty of mentions of this in Scripture, and again, we have choices - Suzy, that's cool - until Christians really understand the seriousness of Halloween, worshipping the dead and death, they won't ever be able to truly see how pagan all the other holidays are ... Finally, as far as Christians who don't celebrate Christmas or other pagan holidays, but also don't celebrate the Feasts - well, they're missing a GREAT blessing and deeper understanding given to us by our Creator. Wow, Matt, can't wait to see you this weekend - what a THREAD!
CS: In Italy for all saints, November first,they have this weird tradition for the kids,the good kids get toys and pure sugar statue(not very healthy) and amond paste fruit shaped pastries.The bad kids had to worry for a visit from the devil.I grew up with this,not my choice,but my parents,I do not like that memory at all,I always tought it was spooky,the dead people,the devil..etc.
SM: I thought Halloween was taking all of my daughters GOOD candy and leaving her with the crap candy.
CS: We have celebrated in the church October 31,on this day in 1517, a German monk, Dr. Martin Luther, courageously published the simple, straightforward truth of the Bible, God's Word, which he had rediscovered after a long and intense spiritual struggle which earned him the wrath of the church, the Bible came into the hands of the common people again.Reformation day
MR: It occurred to me while studying the required feasts:
Rosh Hashana is the natural New Year, according to the way this planet works. Right afterward we have the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) and Sukkoth. If a person doesn't celebrate these festivals of life, they will get stuck with celebrating a festival of death a few weeks later. It's just part of the natural order.
JA: Amen MR - it goes even further, after the celebration of death, then they celebrate the birth of their Savior - such a dichotomy and so profound - if we don't celebrate the Feasts of the Lord, obey his commandments, then we make up and do our own thing - isn't that humanism?
JZ: SM: ROFL! Make sure to save me Butterfingers and Three Musketeers. Keep the wax fangs and Good 'N Plenty's. Chelsea will be lucky if she gets an M&M this year!
TB: I don't like tootsie rolls.
SM: Haha! Yes BUTTERFINGERS! Layla doesn't eat candy....yet....so I will really score! TB - I love eating and doing the Tootsie Roll - Halloween is a dancing and delicious time!
Posts
I completely agree on halloween... my preChristian days I loved it; right after I knew it was wrong, even before finding out the roots & history. A few years back I found out about Christmas, then Easter, then Val. day, etc. Now I'm hearing birthday celebrations might have pagan roots... wow (my kiddos are gonna hate that one; how to totally separate from this world??).
ReplyDeleteThe only thing I take some issue with is the statement about Christians not celebrating Jewish feasts becz of anti-Jewish sentiment. I don't have any anti-Jewish sentiment nor did I ever. (Can't speak for others). I've searched this out & am not done with the topic, but according to much of Galatians & some Acts, it doesn't seem that Paul wanted the Christians troubled to keep all the feasts etc. that the Jewish keep. All I know is when I went down that road recently I had no peace... but like I said I'm not done with scoping it all out.
Blessings! Michele