Do you celebrate Christmas? Why or why not?

Here is the second part of the discussion. Again, feel free to add your own comments.

Do you celebrate Christmas?  

Why or why not?

JR: Sort of, I go and spend the day with my family, but don't do the whole gifts and tree, and such. I look at it as an American Holiday instead of a religous one.

SW: no.. pagan origin, pagan greed in today's version, and .... even the "Jesus is the Reason for the Season".. seems weird, as they take the bits and pieces they like and lump it all together... but forget some of the details, like Yeshua's Brit Milah and Mary's sacrifices at the Temple.. .. NA.. no Christmas here.

GG: No, definitely do not celebrate Christmas. I celebrate Chanukah but not with gift giving but only to remember the great victory that was given to the Jews through YHWH and the Maccabees.

MC: No, because it has nothing to do with Yeshua's birth and is steeped in paganism.

DH: Nope, what the 3 comments above mine said....

MC: No, because it's pagan. http://www.toolong.com/pages/christmas.htm

MR: No, like SW and MC said above, it is of pagan origin and mixing pagan and truth is forbidden. Yeshua was born during Sukkot, in the fall of the year.

KW: We recognize many of our friends do not share our celebration of Sukkot and this time, whatever we may think about it, is a celebration of the birth of Yeshua. We are not "anti-Christmas" but we don't engage in the secular aspect of this season and seek the opportunity to share with fellow believers the roots of the faith.

RS: good answers but remember only YHWH knows the heart of each man and women. YHWH alone knows why we celebrate.If this thread was meant to educate and enlighten,if it was meant to bring people who love YHWH/God,Yeshua/Jesus together in love and better understanding..then it is good.IF however it is intented to separate and judge and point fingers ...dont think you are pleasing to YHWH/God or Yeshua?Jesus . rest assured He knows BOTH names and HE knows YOUR heart.

GG: We know that YahShua was born during Sukkot. We just don't know the exact date. I do believe that there is a reason for this: It is because the Father is not wanting us to celebrate the birth of His Son but He wants us to celebrate His death which would be Passover.

Christmas, and even this applies to the Christian believer, often go into deep debt. This is not at all how I believe the Father wants His children to do. He says that we should owe no man anything but to love them. How can we love any man if we are so steeped in debt from splurging or trying to keep up with gift giving.

If you are going to keep Christmas and you want to keep it Messiah centered, than give gifts to those less fortunate and leave your family only to celebrating the birth--not santa clause. Oh by the way the same letters in Santa are in Satan. Do you suppose this may have something to do with this really not being about the birth of Messiah but rather more about celebrating a pagan custom.... See More

Still if you are so sure this is what you should be doing: celebrating Christmas than celebrate it the right way--by giving to the less fortunate, not giving gifts to your children and your friends and family. If you want to keep this Messiah centered giving to the poor and needy is giving to Him. After all, it is His birthday---not your child's, friend's, yours, or relatives.

RS: WOW The answers in this thread really bother me. RE read the answers steeped in arrogance and pride. What about this thread would concern Yeshua most? I believe God is saying...they STILL dont get it.

MS: RS: What answers do you pride in? I just went back through the answers twice and only saw one that if read or written with a spoken 'tude could be interpreted as such. But most of the answers are in a matter-of-fact tone, that I can tell.

HB: I am sorry that the traditional holidays of men override the ones that are of Yahweh. Yeshua observed the Feast of Lights (Hanukkah) see John 10 so why shouldn't we? The day next to Halloween that Yahweh would NOT choose to have as a set apart day would be December 25. Our family observes Hanukkah because of these facts.

RS: KW..You have a right heart within you. I am a Christian.I have been attending Torah studies ..Shabbot for a few months now.I have learned SO much.I have been shown that Yeshua was born during Sukkot.We had a week long celebration and I will attend next year. I have just purchased a book on the on Gods appointed times.The Holly Spirit or roukhacodash SP? is opening my eyes slowly and teaching me so much.I have added many Jewish friends to my facebook to learn from them. I am learning that no matter what we believe or celebrate 2 things are common.The HEART of a person says it all .The way they say it says a lot.It is people like YOU Karen that teach with patience and love with TRUTH that I believe pleases YHWH . You allow me to learn in LOVE and not condemnation. Blessings and love to you, KW.

MS: RS (and everyone else): You may want to sign up for the Messianic Safe Haven list. It's on Yahoo, but you can keep it to only email if you don't have a Yahoo ID. We have people from the "just want to watch and learn" to those who have been Torah-Observant for many years. I don't run the group, but I know the folks that do. They keep a tight reign on debates to make sure that it stays a "safe" place for all who want to join.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianicsafehaven
-or-
messianicsafehaven-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (messsage can be empty)

RS: Thank you MS ,I will check it out. It is exactly what I need.

GB: Isaiah chapters 7 & 9 gives us a beautiful promise of the birth of Messiah. The beginning of the gospels give us the fulfillment that prophecy. As a Messianic Jew, I love celebrating God's redemptive plan fulfilled in Messiah's birth. Yes, trees and gifts have pagan origins but don't get rid of the baby (pun intended) with the bath water.

Do you celebrate Chanukah? Why or why not?

I started another conversation, but split it into two parts. Feel free to add your own comments below.

Do you celebrate Chanukah? 

Why or why not?

SW: Yes.. as a time of re-dedication, a time to celebrate the miracle of God preserving the Remnant..

JR: No, because the temple is gone.

GG: Yes, I do celebrate this even though there is no temple right now. I think it is a good thing to remember the great victory that came through YHWH as He used the Maccabees to win a great victory against an evil ruler. It is something for us to think about deeply as we are nearing the time of this very same thing happening to us. It won't be too long from now until we see the persecution happening here in America to us believers and the Jewish people. It will be happening and soon and we might just fix our eyes on the victory that has happened so that we can look to YHWH to bring it about once again for us in the later days to come.

MC: Yes because Yeshua did.

DK: Is there proof He did? I really want to know, not a rhetorical question :)

DH: Yes, because Yeshua did....John 10

MC: It's not a commanded feast day but Yeshua did celebrate.

MS: DH: Chanukah is also known as the Festival of Lights, as you may know. This goes back to the re-dedication of the Temple. I long time ago I did some research and found out that the Temple re-dedication fell in the fall/winter. If I recall correctly, and I may be off since it's been a few years since I've done the research, but the particular year that is mentioned in the Bible, the re-dedication fell at the time the Bible said Yeshua celebrated the Feast of Dedication in John 10:22.

I'll have to see if I can't find my research on it. It went into a bit more detail.

MR: Yes, it is a time of remembrance and celebration for the miracle of the oil, temple or no. Yeshua did celebrate it. G-d did not command it in Torah, but it is in Scripture.

KW: Yes. Tradition.

MC:The problem we've had over the last 8 years is that people think that we've replaced x-mas with Chanukah. Not so, we didn't do Chanukah until 3 years after we dropped x-mas until we were certain it wasn't an abomination.

Biblical Health Laws - Did Jesus Do Away with Them?

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/tw-mag.cgi?category=Magazine29&item=1104248743

Volume 6, Issue 2

Bible Health Laws

By Douglas S. Winnail

Did Jesus Christ abolish the health laws given in the Old Testament, or are they still relevant today? Can biblical health laws, given thousands of years ago, be meaningful and practical in today's society? The answer may surprise you!

The health laws found in the Bible pose an interesting dilemma for anyone who believes in following biblical teachings. The Bible clearly states that certain foods are not to be eaten, and that certain behaviors are sinful and an abomination in God's sight. Yet people have been claiming for centuries that Jesus did away with these regulations, and that they are burdensome, outdated, bizarre and even barbaric.       But just how did these laws come about? Who authored them, and why were they given? Did Jesus really abolish them, or are they still applicable today? Medical science and history and sound Bible scholarship agree—the answer is absolutely contrary to what most who profess belief in Christ wrongly assume! Origin of the Health Laws      The biblical health laws are usually referred to as the Laws of Moses. Many scholars assume that Moses collected primitive taboos to form a code of laws. Some claim that the reasons for clean and unclean foods are purely arbitrary, irrational or unexplainable. Some anthropological speculations suggest that unclean animals are imperfect members of their species—tell that to a pig and you will probably get a well-deserved snort of disgust! Educated scholars also claim that the biblical laws have nothing to do with health, but were merely rituals to separate the Israelites from their pagan neighbors, and that only Jews need to observe these laws today. However, all these attempts to explain the biblical health laws are inadequate, as we will see in this article.       In Leviticus 11–20, where these laws are first outlined in detail, we find that "the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, 'Speak to the children of Israel, saying, "These are the animals which you may eat"'" (Leviticus 11:1–2). This same introductory statement precedes the enumeration of other health laws in the book of Leviticus. According to the Bible, the author of the biblical health laws was not Moses—but God Himself! God explained to the Israelites that if they obeyed His commandments they would experience "none of the diseases" that plagued other nations (Exodus 15:26). God gave these laws to His chosen people so they could be an example to the world! God wanted their better health to be noticed by surrounding nations who could then inquire how they, too, could gain the same results (see Deuteronomy 4:1–8). While some theologians have naively suggested that these "regulations" were given to Israelites to punish them for their disobedience, these laws were actually given by a God of love to show human beings a better way to live. The health laws were to be taught by the priests, because of their fundamental importance!      It is quite instructive to read what Bible reference books have to say about the health laws. Halley's Bible Handbook states: "Moses' Law… [including] its Health and Food regulations, was far purer, more rational, humane and democratic than, and showed a wisdom far in advance of, anything in ancient legislation, Babylonian, Egyptian or any other" (24th edition, p. 138). Eerdmans' Handbook of the Bible states: "Today we are able to understand and appreciate the sound principles of diet, hygiene and medicine which these laws express" (p. 176). The Expositor's Bible Commentary, commenting on Leviticus 11, states that "the Levitical laws of cleanness have no known extensive parallels in surrounding cultures," so the idea of Moses borrowing primitive taboos does not hold up, because "surrounding cultures exhibit little of this sort of law."       While some scholars assert that the biblical laws were not given for reasons of health, this same commentary states that "the spiritual and hygienic reasons for the laws may still be affirmed. They are remarkably valuable in the area of public health… These laws protected Israel from bad diet, dangerous vermin and communicable diseases... These were rule-of-thumb laws that God gave in His wisdom to a people who could not know the reason for the provision" (ibid.). Thus, the idea that these biblical laws are outdated and old-fashioned and have nothing to do with health is simply nonsense! Dietary Laws      The most familiar biblical health laws define clean and unclean meats—creatures that are acceptable to eat and those that are not—yet most people (even theologians!) have little or no understanding of the medically sound reasons behind these instructions! The scientific wisdom behind the biblical dietary laws is seldom taught today; instead, these laws are commonly viewed as Old Testament regulations that are no longer applicable. However, as Eerdmans' Handbook of the Bible comments: "These lists [of clean and unclean creatures] have a significance often ignored. Far from being based on fad or fancy, these lists emphasize a fact not discovered until late in the last century… that animals carry diseases dangerous to man" (p. 176). In fact, the same animals labeled unclean in Scripture still carry parasitic diseases that are still dangerous to human beings today!       "Clean" land animals are ruminants—grazing animals such as cattle, sheep, deer and elk—whose digestive tracts are designed to turn grass that human beings cannot digest into meat that we can digest. Most unclean animals are carnivores or scavengers that can transmit dangerous diseases to human beings. Pigs eat roots and grains, rather than grass, and thus are ecological competitors to human beings. Clean fish have fins and scales. Unclean aquatic organisms like clams and oysters are filter feeders that purify water, and that concentrate poisonous chemicals and pathologic bacteria and viruses in their tissues. Eating an oyster is like eating your vacuum cleaner bag—yet modern connoisseurs do not like to think about this! Crabs and lobsters are scavengers that eat dead things on the bottom of bodies of water. Most unclean birds are carnivores or scavengers. God in His wisdom inspired laws that protect humans from contracting dangerous diseases, but also protect "nature's clean up crew" by making them "off limits" as food for mankind (for more information on this subject, request our free reprint article, Do You Really Want to Eat That?). These biological principles still operate today. As a point of illustration: the SARS outbreak was traced to an area in southern China where civet cats (an unclean animal) are eaten as a delicacy!       However, the laws of clean and unclean meats are not the only biblical instructions that concern diet. In Leviticus 3:17, we read that "you shall eat neither fat nor blood" (cf. Leviticus 7:23–27). One of the most significant discoveries in the last century was that high fat diets are linked to increased levels of heart disease, stroke, cancer of the colon and breast and a host of other pathologies—including obesity—that bring additional complications. Our challenge is to learn to recognize major sources of fat in our diet (visible fats on meat, fatty cuts of meat—like bacon, generous amounts of heavy dressings, spoonfuls of oil, etc.), and reduce our intake of fats that are high in calories and often high in saturated fats. It has also become painfully obvious in recent decades that contaminated blood and blood products can transmit AIDS and hepatitis. The simple principle of avoiding fat and blood is a powerful principle of prevention—if it is followed—because it still works today!       Biblical principles also cover the use of plant foods—carbohydrates. Ezekiel was instructed to make a nutritious bread from "wheat, barley, beans, lentils, millet and spelt" (Ezekiel 4:9). This was a multigrain bread containing complex carbohydrates for energy, different kinds of fiber and multiple amino acids for proteins and bodybuilding. It was not a highly refined product like today's common breads that have most of their nutrients removed, then are misleadingly called "enriched" when a few nutrients are added back.      The Bible advises us to use sweets like honey or other simple sugars sparingly (Proverbs 25:16; 27). We are warned against overeating—gluttony (Proverbs 28:7). Modern books on health give the same advice! The biblical dietary guidelines are not old-fashioned, burdensome regulations—they are divinely inspired guidelines that have taken mankind's science thousands of years to understand! Liquid Refreshment!       Many sincere religious people believe it is evil and sinful to drink alcohol. Yet, when we look at the biblical health guidelines, we find that drunkenness is what is sinful—not the use of alcohol. Warnings against the misuse of alcohol run throughout the Bible (Genesis 9:20–21; Ephesians 5:18; 1 Peter 4:3). Yet, it is worth noting that Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine at a wedding feast (John 2:1–11). He would not have done this if drinking alcohol were a sin! However, priests were forbidden to drink on the job (Leviticus 10:9).  Paul advises Timothy about the medicinal value of wine for an upset stomach (1 Timothy 5:23). The beneficial effects of moderate amounts of alcohol have been one of the surprises of modern medical studies. People who use alcohol in moderation—a glass of wine a day—have fewer heart attacks than alcohol abusers or total abstainers! Elderly people with digestive problems caused by a lack of stomach acid experience improvement when they take a small glass of wine with meals. Biblical instructions about alcohol are in harmony with scientific evidence, and are still applicable today. We may use alcohol, but we must develop character to use it properly. Childbirth Laws and Circumcision      At first glance, some may think that biblical instructions about childbirth are biased against women. At the birth of a male child, a woman was considered unclean for 7 days and continued in a state of purification for 33 days; following the birth of a female child, the mother was considered unclean for 14 days and her purification period was 66 days. (Leviticus 12:2–5) However, these instructions fit very well with modern scientific discoveries about childbirth and development and disease prevention. By declaring a woman who had just given birth unclean, the biblical health laws required whoever touched the new mother (especially the midwife) to wash and to avoid immediate contact with other people—a practice designed to prevent the spread of diseases such as childbirth fever, which claimed untold lives throughout history. It was not until the mid-1800s that an Austrian physician, Ignaz Philipp Semmelweis, recognized that the spread of childbirth fever could be prevented if birth attendants washed after a delivery—yet biblical health laws had promoted this practice almost 3,000 years earlier!       But there are even more benefits in these instructions. While a new mother was unclean (7–14 days), she was free from the duties of cooking and ordinary housework—giving her time to regain her strength after delivering a baby. During the purification period (33–66 days), she remained in semi-isolation, thus avoiding crowds and contact with disease germs that could harm her or her newborn child. She was not required to travel to a place of worship to make an offering until the end of her purification period. Since travel was often arduous, this gave a nursing mother time for her breast milk to come in, to establish a feeding routine and for the baby to build antibodies and gain strength. The longer period for female babies was not due to male chauvinistic bias. Even today, female babies often have lower birth weights and higher mortality rates, so this longer period at home with the mother was meant to give them a better start in life.       The Bible instructed that male babies were to be circumcised on the eighth day (Genesis 17:12–14; Leviticus 12:3). Modern scientific studies have shown that the blood-clotting mechanism in a baby is not fully developed until the eighth day, so it was not wise to do a surgical procedure earlier because of the threat of hemorrhage (see None of These Diseases, McMillen, pp. 20–21).       While some well-meaning people consider male circumcision barbaric, medical science shows that circumcised little boys have a reduced risk of urinary infections, circumcised men have lower rates of cancer of the penis and women married to circumcised men have much lower rates of cervical cancer!       The custom of female circumcision is a totally different matter. It is non-biblical, and should not be confused with biblical circumcision of males, where only the foreskin is removed. Female circumcision, however, actually removes part of a woman's genitalia, rather than just skin tissue. Female circumcision is simply mutilation, and has nothing to do with biblical circumcision. Sanitary Laws and Quarantine      The biblical laws of sanitation were clearly ahead of their time! There was really no way to fully understand the reasons for these laws until the invention of the microscope, the discovery of bacteria and the pioneering work of pathologists in recent centuries, yet these ancient biblical laws have proven scientifically valid today! People who touched a dead or diseased animal or person—or even garments or secretions from a sick person—were to bathe and wash their clothes and avoid contact with others. Contaminated garments were to be washed or burned—important sanitizing principles that are still followed today. Dwellings that showed signs of mold, or that had harbored sick individuals, were to be cleaned, repaired or destroyed, to prevent the spread of disease (see Leviticus 13–15). Porous vessels that came into contact with dead animals were to be broken, since they would harbor bacteria. People showing signs of sickness were to be isolated—quarantined—until examined by a priest and declared well. People were to wash after having sex. Tattoos and cuttings on the flesh were also forbidden (Leviticus 19:28), for reasons that include the risk of contracting disease. Modern physicians warn that tattoos and body-piercing carry a risk for contracting infectious diseases like hepatitis B, hepatitis C, syphilis and HIV/AIDS (International Journal of Infectious Disease, 2001, 5(1), 27–34).       In Deuteronomy 23:9–14, we learn that human wastes were to be buried, away from human dwellings. Today we call this sanitary waste disposal, and its benefits are widely understood but not always practiced—especially in poverty-stricken areas. History is filled with epidemics of typhus, cholera and dysentery, linked to the careless dumping of human waste into streets and rivers, or feeding human waste to animals that are then eaten. Burying human waste breaks the life cycle of many parasitic organisms that spread disease. This simple practice is much more effective, and less expensive, than treating disease after it breaks out—and God put this principle in the Bible thousands of years before mankind's science understood its benefit! Moral Laws      Many of the moral laws of the Bible also have definite health implications. Adultery and fornication are clearly forbidden in Scripture (Exodus 20:14; Leviticus 18:20; 1 Corinthians 6:9) because they threaten not only the stability of the family and society, but also the health of the individual. One of the most easily demonstrated facts of medical history is that promiscuity spreads diseases—often dangerous and deadly diseases of which AIDS is only the latest and most notorious. Sexually transmitted diseases bring suffering, disfigurement, infertility and death. This is one reason why Paul advises us to "flee sexual immorality," and warns that the person "who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body" (1 Corinthians 6:18). One reason why prostitution is labeled a sin in the Bible is that it spreads disease. Serious health risks are among the reasons why the Bible prohibits homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22; 20:13) and bestiality (Leviticus 18:23–30). Sexually active homosexual men have a much shorter life span than the average man, and a much higher risk of contracting—and dying from—a serious disease. The Bible warns that people practicing immoral sexual activity "lack understanding," because they do not grasp the serious risks they are taking—healthwise or otherwise (Proverbs 6:32). These health-related moral laws—and the consequences of breaking them—are still very much in force today!       God is the author of the biblical health laws. The Bible reveals that God does not change (Malachi 3:6), which means that His fundamental laws do not change. The laws of biology did not suddenly change, or stop operating, when Jesus died on the cross! The same factors that caused or prevented disease in the days of Moses still operate today.       Most ancient cultures had extensive lists of medicines and procedures for treating disease. The health laws that God gave to Moses, however, did not focus on treating disease, but instead focused on preventing disease and promoting health! This is why medical historian Ralph Major describes Moses as "the greatest sanitary engineer that the world has ever seen" because "Moses recognized the great principle that the prevention of disease is usually simpler and invariably more far reaching than the cure of disease… His doctrines [in the book of Leviticus] could be summed up by the objects of sanitation today—pure food, pure water, pure air, pure bodies and pure dwellings" (A History of Medicine, vol. 1, pp. 62–64). The biblical health laws are timeless! They were valid in the days of Moses, and they are just as valid—and applicable—today. The Bible reveals that when Jesus Christ returns to establish the Kingdom of God on this earth, the laws of God will be proclaimed to the world from Jerusalem (Isaiah 2:2–4). As human beings around the globe learn to live by these simple yet fundamentally important laws, their health will improve—and the plague of disease will begin to disappear (Isaiah 35:5–7). This is part of the gospel! You can play a vital role in this incredible transformation (Isaiah 30:20–21)—if you learn the value of applying these biblical health laws in your own life today! Did Jesus Abolish the Bible Health Laws? Did Jesus do away with fundamentally important biblical laws concerning human health? Those who believe this usually cite Mark 7 and Acts 10. Some Bible translations of Mark 7:18–19 say: "Jesus declared all foods clean"—yet other translations render the verse differently. When you compare Mark 7 with a similar account in Matthew 15, you find that Jesus was not even addressing the subject of clean or unclean foods—the issue in question was eating without a ceremonial washing of the hands! Acts 10 describes Peter's vision of a sheet coming down from heaven containing unclean animals that he is told three times to kill and eat. Peter, who had been trained by Christ for more than three years, understood that this was wrong and resisted! While Peter pondered the meaning of the vision (Acts 10:17), several Gentiles arrived at his home. On hearing their mission, Peter grasped the meaning of the vision: "God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean" (Acts 10:28). According to Scripture, Peter did not conclude from this vision that the laws of clean and unclean foods had been eliminated. This is confirmed by a prophecy that indicates when Christ returns He will bring judgment on idol worshipers and those who persist in eating unclean animals (Isaiah 66:15–17).

Movie review: "Knowing" with Nicolas Cage

The following was written by my wife:

I want to warn you up front, if you plan on watching this movie and you don't want to know the ending, have someone else read this for you, I plan on telling the ending.

With that said, this is the first movie that I have seen that actually truthfully addresses aliens and end time events. Now I didn't say biblically addresses them, only honestly. You will understand more as I tell you more about the story.

The main character is a professor of astro-physics at MIT. He is a recent widow with a 10ish year old son.  At the son's school they have a ceremony to open a time capsule that was buried some 50 years previous. In the capsule are drawings done by the students of one class at the school.  One of the students in this class instead writes a long series of numbers on her paper and is deposited into the capsule. It is also important to know that this young girl hears voices in her head.  Fast forward to the opening of the capsule. The teacher passes out the pictures that were inside to the children to examine.  The professor's boy gets the picture with the numbers on it. The professor sees it and in an alcohol-induced frenzy, spends all night "crunching the numbers" and comes up with dates and body counts for most of the numbers.  The list is all of the dates of major tragedies that have occurred in the last 50 years and the number of fatalities for each.  There are a series of numbers that are yet to happen at the end of the list. The next event is to occur the next day. As he is driving to pick up his son and is stopped in traffic he is puzzling over the list of numbers.  The unidentified numbers after each date and count he finds out are GPS coordinates. He sees this because the coordinates match his GPS for where he is stopped . He witnesses a horrific airplane crash with several burning bodies and screaming victims. This was very disturbing in and of itself. Now that he has discovered the rest of the numbers he can pinpoint the next occurrence. Which he does and tries to have it stopped by calling the authorities, anonymously, and is treated as a terrorist. A train derails in the subway and this is also a very graphic scene, with bodies flying and people screaming.

The professor begins a fact finding mission and hunts up the teacher from 50 years ago. He then finds and follows the old student's daughter and granddaughter. The old student has passed away. He approaches the woman and her daughter and asks about the woman's mother.  He asks "did she hear voices?"  They eventually begin to work together to figure out what it all means. As they talk and compare notes they find that both the professor's son and the woman's daughter are hearing voices and are being watched by these blonde men in trench coats. These men "whisper" to the children. This is important, I will tell you why later.  They figure that the last date on the list is the next day and that they have the GPS for where it will take place. But the body count is not a number but "EE"  Looking thru the old students trailer they uncover a message scrawled on the underside of  her bed on a piece of plywood.  "Everyone Else" is repeated over and over. The professor's son has a vision, aided by the "Watchers" of the whole Earth burning up. The daughter of the woman is coloring an old lithograph of the Scene of Ezekiel and the wheel.  The part that she is coloring is  God in the clouds and she says "This is the sun".  The professor comes to the conclusion that the recent "heat wave" is just the beginning of a massive solar flare that will overtake the Earth and destroy all life. Communications are disrupted and chaos ensues.

Before it all comes to an end the professor and his son and the girl end up  near the old students trailer in the woods.  The watchers tell the children that they are there to take them to a place they will be safe. Not the dad, only the children. He nobly lets his child go and keeps a brave face. Each child is allowed to take a "friend" with them, a rabbit. (unclean animal)  The watchers, now that they have what they came for drop their masks and show themselves as they are. They appear as many ET's we see in TV and movies. They are tall and slender with out face or feature. They are silvery and light almost translucent. They appear to have a wispy light trail that hangs around their shoulders and down their back. They take the children up into their craft that vaguely looks like a gyroscope, or a wheel within a wheel. As our view is pulled up into space with the craft we see other crafts lifting off the planet at the same time. 

Meanwhile back in the city the professor goes to see his parents and sister. Just in time. As they embrace as a family the flames from the sun wash over the planet and burn up all life.

The last scene is of the children on a vaguely Earth like planet. They are in simple cotton dress running thru a strange wheat field. They are running toward a large oak tree standing alone on a low rise. In the distance we can see other "pods" dropping off other child pairs.

Now, this is what disturbed me most about this movie. When you have bad news to give to someone you do not just blurt out..."You are going to die in two weeks!!" No you say " you are very sick"  Then you say "we are not able to treat your illness." Then you may come to "You do not have long to live".  Now think about the last 50 or so years. It started with HG Wells "War of the Worlds" and "The day the Earth stood still". These were tantamount to the diagnoses of the incurable illness". Over the years we have seen a progression of more intense and realistic aliens portrayed in movies and TV. We have also seen a great increase of ET sightings and encounters. I do not believe that this is a coincidence. I believe that this is a planned and deliberate softening of the human race to the presence of other worldly beings.  The "watchers" whispered to the children. Satan's name in Hebrew means to whisper or hiss.  He whispered or hissed to Eve.  when the "watchers" dropped their masks and showed themselves..to me they looked like angels of light. They even had "wings". This was the truest part of the movie.

The lie in this movie was that the "watchers" were taking the children to a safe place. A place of new beginnings, a new Garden of Eden. This perpetuates the lie that the world just cycles thru life and death. That a "higher" power plants seeds from one time to repopulate the next time. The lie is that the "watchers" are benevolent and kind. They are here for the good of mankind.  They can harvest hundreds or thousands of children but they do not have the power to stop the sun from toasting the planet.  The whole idea of warning or giving a prophecy of what is to come is twisted to come from the "Watchers" where true prophecy only comes from Yahweh. The Creator was almost completely left out of this movie. The father of the professor is mentioned to be a pastor and the sister of the professor speaks of praying for him once,and there is an allusion to the prophesy of Ezekiel, but that is all.  Everything is logic and science. The professor gives his son to the "watchers" in total ignorance and delusion.

This whole movie is a set up. Setting, you the watcher,up to believe and to follow these "angels of light" or "watchers".  The first person who listened to the whispers of the Angel  of Light was separated form the presence Yahweh, turned out of the Garden and made to live in toil for the rest of their days. This was not a good thing!! Remember the King of Whisperers is also the Father of Lies. We are experiencing the greatest propaganda campaign in all of history.

Following The Way, John 14:6
Teresa Smith M.H.
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Jer 17:14  Heal me, YHVH, and I shall be healed; save me, and I shall be saved, for you are my praise.

Big Question #2: Black and White or Gray

I was thinking of another discussable question and would love to hear everyone's thoughts:


Are YHWH's instructions black and white, or are there gray areas? If there are gray areas, list them.


RB: Black and white. The gray areas are between our ears.

DH: When one removes the black and white of Torah, then ALL one finds is differing shades of gray....but it is all gray.

MC: Tzit Tzi's - suppose to wear them...but there are all kinds of ways to tie them - unless you are Rabbinic. This is where we get to be creative!

WH: loves RB's answer lol We either serve YAH (light/white) or we serve the flesh (darkness/black) ...we can't serve 2 masters (gray)

GG: For the most part YHWH's instructions are black and white, but there are times when there are gray areas. For instant we are suppose to rest on Sabbath but than again if we see someone in need of help, we should help that person. So there are gray areas....like Diane said...differing shades of gray.

GH: I believe HIs commands are an invitation to intimacy with Him as well as a path of wholeness/completeness, for our ultimate destiny, path, goal is intimacy that the first Adam experienced with YHVH prior to the Fall. I don't know if I would call them 'gray areas'. I believe that YHVH commadments were meant to be obeyed as they are written, but that we are to prayerfuly consult *with Him* as to the practicalities. The Tzi-ttzit are a good example. His Word says wear them... and in not giving us the particulars I believe He is inviting us to intimacy with Him; we are invited to ask HIM how long.

LL: No such thing as gray areas in the word of YHVH.

JA: I think the gray areas or the areas of non-explanation are where He allows us to determine the 'how' ... example - Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, the command, is black and white. You either do or do not obey the command. But HOW you keep it holy, set it apart, is what makes it special and a reminder to each individual person/family. The Word says, 'do no regular work', but that is different for every individual even though the command is black and white. YHVH allows for creativity, interpretation, and individual freedom within the realm of His black and white commands. (Liked the person who mentioned tying the tzizits!)

DH: GG, I don't think you quite understood what I said.

When you get gray is when you try to make up your own rules of conduct without God's set black and white of Torah.

Yes, there are places where the exact how's are not set down in writing....which is what makes the variety in observance, but that is not gray, that is allowing each individual to choose *how* they go about setting apart the Sabbath, or tying the tzit tzit etc.

Gray is a mixture of essentially good and evil, but what fellowship do light and darkness have with each other.....?

SS: Gray areas are our activities in life which aren't specifically covered in the bible . Can we, enjoy an alcoholic drink? What about wearing make-up? Women in slacks? Smoking? Driving? Watching TV? Going out to a rock concert? Swimming? Cutting your hair?

JA: Good explanation of 'gray', Diane. Yeshua says that when we mix the holy (hot) and the profane (cold), we become gray (lukewarm). He vomits the lukewarm out of his mouth!

SS: Rom 14; 14-17 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; for the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

What it is the meaning of this verse? No food is unclean?

Celebrating birthdays is a gray area,I heard someone say that because in the Bible only evil people celebrated their birthdays we should not celebrate ,even though the Bible does not specifically condemn it.

DT: Gray areas are usually excuses and what I used to do when I was a former Baptist Minister. I called Gray areas liberty and really they were excuses for not doing the obvious black and white things in Torah.

SS: The law of God is black and white,the non-moral issues,cultural issues, this I think are the gray area.We are free,we are not in bondage,but we cannot use our freedom to offend others,or those who are weak,that would not be love

GH: SS, you asked the meaning of the verse you quoted. Using the Tenakh (old testament) as the foundation, we already know what is and is not food -this was addressed by YHVH in Leviticus, so we have no need to look elsewhere for an explanation of clean food vs. unclean meats. What is in question is whether those things already defined as 'food' by Elohim can be made unclean by acts of man, in this case foods sacrificed to idols. The answer is no - if Elohim says it is clean, it remains clean.

DT: But are there really gray areas? Or is it that we do not know what G-d has already said? I was a minister who sadly like most do not know their Bible very well because we refuse the Torah. When we do that then what G-d already said we dismiss as irrelevant. That opens the door for opinions. Then all of the gray enters in. Why because if what G-d said before is no longer valid today, then what do you do with unclean meats? Well I think that pork is clean, No I think pork is unclean. The debates never end. When in fact G-d already made a decision on pork. It is unclean. Torah still is holy and just and good. It is what we should live by and if we simply do what Elohim says then our opinions go away. No more gray areas so called. G-d told us black and white in Torah. Now it is time for us to follow and obey. G-d is not an American giving us rights. We must hearken as it was always since the first man.

JA: DT... that response above was PERFECT! Thanks!

DT: Sure JA! I guess I have to be honest. I was a Minister who really messed it all up and I have to be real and help others not screw up like I did. I never want to offend anyone. Sadly I think that I do at times. But I have to be genuine and use my own life to help others. Before Torah and obedience in the Scriptures I was like everybody else in the Pulpit. I regret all of the mess I was taught and then taught to others. I was sincere, but sincerely wrong. I never meant to deceive but I did not know any better like I do now.

SS: DT, you are a Pastor? My experience has been in a church,non denomination church,but we believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior,I am not aware of my Pastor telling me that is okay to disobey the law of God,actually I don't think it ever happened.

Maybe it is just because we think we have to keep the 10 Commandments,and some other laws.I think there is such a misunderstanding about what is law and what is not law.No one would say it is okay to kill or lie because Jesus has forgiven you,but this is part of the 10 Commandments

Matt: DT said the very point I wanted to get to. Everyone kept focusing on the gray areas, the "hows", without seeing what today's churches teach the gray areas are - their opinions. But my point in asking as vague as I did was to see just how many people would see that the laws truly are black and white.

SS: You completely missed DT's point regarding teaching others. He has, in the past, done like many pastors still do - they teach against following Torah, or they simply don't teach it at all. And I would bet that your pastor DID, in fact, tell you that it was "okay to disobey the law of God" by telling you it was okay to eat pork, shark and scallops; that the Sabbath was Sunday and it didn't matter if you worked on that day, and all of the other things that pastors misteach about. If a person is non-Torah-observant, and they believe that following Torah is wrong, they are going to also teach that it is wrong.

It is when the Holy Spirit opens their eyes and convicts that person that the truths held in the Old Testament aren't "old" but rather still to be followed, that they will start teaching others (or try to) to do the same.

JA: Most pastors teach 'obey God', but without being willing to give concrete ways. When faced with a question of a concrete way, I was told, 'that's not for today.' More pastors don't teach anything at all. How many teach the least of the commandments let alone the greatest of the commandments? That is the determination of 'reward position in the kingdom of heaven' according to Yeshua. DT, my first thoughts were, 'what a humble man to admit such truths.' I sat in awe in my chair. My husband said, 'That man is one in a million!' Thank you. I don't know what is taught in seminaries, but I knew a young man, strong believer, after 4 years in seminary had no faith at all, didn't even believe the Bible to be inerrant Truth, and fell into new age beliefs and then he was given a church! We all need to be good Bereans and study the Word.

DT: Shalom everyone. I am just being honest I guess. I was with G-d and now I have to be with the sheep. As Matt said and Julie, if you preach you have to tell folks what to do in regard to holiness. They all are seeking and wanting to know how to be G-dly. They are real and very sincere. They really do want to please the L-rd, yet at the same time no one (used to be me) from the pulpit is telling them how concretely. Therefore it is all gray. Why? If there is not Torah today, then it has to be gray. It must be your Pastor's opinion! Or what used to be mine. Then G-d and His judgment is left behind. This opens the door to all kinds of doctrine. Because if again there is no Torah now, then you have to come up with your own beliefs too. I am a pretty smart guy. I am also an avid student of the Word. But if I do not use what G-d gave me in Torah, then these smart and good things are used to do what is right in my own eyes. I fabricate doctrines and ways of doing things. My intentions are indeed good but my wisdom is not like the Father's nor are my ways like His. Thus I find myself in sincere error. And then I teach my people this.

When this all happens then the concrete does occur in the bad way. We make gray areas as if they are what G-d teaches. We make the Gray areas as if they are Torah when in fact they are not :Thus sayeth the L-rd". But the sheep do not know any different. And then the gray become black and white to them. And this bad teaching is therefore passed down from one person to the next.

I have spent a lot of time discovering where I went wrong. G-d has revealed much to me. I have repented of this and now my mission is clear. I must teach His sheep who are sincere to not follow these gray areas anymore. I must show all that Torah is what is indeed black and white. Thus sayeth the L-rd is indeed just that. What I think or what I choose is filled with fault. What G-d decides stands forever!... Read More

So Torah is not a matter of legalism it is a matter of truth.

Yeshua has gained for us the sacrificial atonement and the offering by blood as required in Torah. So following Torah is a matter of following what the Father says to do. My Friends I love you dearly and I only desire to show any that Torah is indeed the Word of G-d. It is relevant for today and is a matter of being like G-d. Imitating Him and being His people.We can no longer tell people to be holy and righteous and then not tell them how. We must tell them how to honor G-d. Simply saying that they must do so and then not let them follow Torah is ridiculous. If there is no Torah, then we do not have the doctrine to teach anyone! We can't tell them how to be holy or do the will of Elohim. Why? Because we have rejected the way that G-d gave us to know His will.

SS: Well,it came down just to Sunday worship and eating pork,that is were the difference is.I did ask the pastor why Sunday? Because it is the first day of the week that jesus met with his people and Pentecost also was on Sunday.God will lead me and tell me how to live,the Holy Spirit not a Pastor,he is just a man,a sinner like everyone else.I have to seek the truth,read the Bible and ask in prayer and listen to Him,I don't blame the pastor or the church,because it is between me and the Lord

Christians also believe that God has made all food clean. The only law that is not applicable today,is the temple law,because there is no temple,actually we are the temple of God.The sacrificial law also is not applicable,Jesus was the Ultimate sacrifice,we do not need to slaughter animals anymore for our sins,we can came into the Holy of Holy through His blood

JA: There is a difference between understanding what was created as food and what was not. All that was created as food is clean; all that was not meant to be food is not. The question I ask is 'what happened to change the pig, the horse, the rat, the eagle, or the camel when Yeshua died on the cross?

SS: I think the Scripture they use is 1 timothy 4:2-5
(3) forbidding to marry,and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.For every creature of God is good,and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

DT: But G-d did not create the pig to be received with thanksgiving since it is an abomination. G-d's Word and prayer does not sanctify pork or any unclean food. When it speaks of prayer and thanksgiving it is referring to Jewish blessing after a meal. One cannot thank G-d nor bless Him after eating that which is unclean. And the Scriptures never condone blessing an abomination.

G-d was the one who forbade the unclean not man as in these verses you referred to in 1 Timothy 4.

SS: I also notice that some Christians do not eat pork and shell fish,in fact I have listened to a christian nutritionist who wrote books on the subject: Eat drink and be healthy,who also believe that this foods should not be eaten and are unclean,and he is a christian,so it is not all of us

DT: That's a very good point SS. Not everyone has gone against the Father. Absolutely. Yet I would say what many Rabbi's in History have said about eating pork or bacon. Rabbi, do you abstain from pork because it is vile? No said the Rabbi. What the student proclaimed! My son I love the taste of meat and I am sure that It would be tasty indeed by the smell of it cooking. So why would you not eat it Rabbi? I would and do abstain for the sole reason that Adonai forbids it! His words determine my rejection of it.

So even though pork may be lean or even if one refuses to eat it based upon health reasons, this all may be well and fine. Yet one should abstain from even the joyous if Torah tell su that our G-d abhors it. I would never again eat sugar and all the confections it makes, if my Father told me to never eat it again. Health is an ok reason, but love for G-d is far better. Not a rebuke at all. Just some information to bring understanding.

Torah in regard to food may not have anything at all to do with the fact that it is healthy or unhealthy. It is simply that G-d said no or yes. Obedience is far better than sacrifice.

JA: Yes, I had someone ask me years ago, "If you found out pork was the cure all for all disease and cancer, would you then eat it?" It's not about health, it's about faith. :)

SS: Yes DT, it should be done for obedience,I am Italian it has been hard to give up on those ribs.What about krill oil? That is from shrimps,it is good for your health,are we allowed to take it?

DT: SS, you are a wise woman. I can see how YHWH has spoken to you. He did me too. It was very very hard. More tough than can be imagined really. I am nit sure If you know my story here lately but is so hard and painful. Yet I must do what G-d says. Even at the risk of loss. Isn't that what Yeshua said? Can I go to war or finish that building I have started? Yes, if G-d has told me to do so. And He has. I must be faithful and finish what He started in me.

I would not even use the smallest drop or part of an unclean anything. If the animal is unclean would not the oil or the scales or the smallest appendage. Even as our dear sister put it, even if it cured cancer, I would not take it or use it. If the disease is bad just imagine what the end of an abomination would be for me!

...this is where the conversation has currently stopped.

First big question

The first question, which is actually two questions, that I asked that resulted in a long discussion thread was this one. Little did anyone know just how long it would go!

How many people who claim to be Christians know the history of Halloween? How many people who claim to be Christians know what the Bible says about it?

CC: How many Christians think liberal people are the antichrist???

JB: A lot of them don't know, because they are not taught. Most want to be spoon fed, and don't want to take time to look it up for themselves either in the Scriptures or in the encyclopedia.

JA: What is so amazing is that the evil side of Halloween becomes more and more obvious every year and every year there are still the 'excuses' of - it's all fun.

GH: here is a little something I wrote on my blog:http://neshama-ancientpath.blogspot.com/2009/10/halloween-is-just-really-fun-holiday.html

MF: Why is it evil when it comes from a religion other than Christianity? I bet you wouldn't dare say the same with regard to Christmas...

HB: Christmas is also pagan, MF! Comes from the worship of Mithra, the god of the sun ... greek and pagan origins sorry (see Wikipedia)

GH: MF, to whom are you addressing?

MF: Oh, I already knew that. In fact, other than the carryover Hebrew holidays (which most Christians don't celebrate because of hundreds of years of Anti-Jewish sentiment by Christianity), Christianity doesn't have any real religious holidays that it didn't steal from other religions... mostly those that Christianity violently stamped out as heretical in order to establish greater control of the uneducated masses.

JA: More than pagan, Halloween is a high holy day for Wiccans aka Satanists - who probably don't celebrate the birthday of Jesus anytime - let alone Christmas ...

GH: MF, I'm not sure anyone said that something is necessarly evil just because it came from another religion.

MF: GH, mostly I am addressing MS, who is one of my oldest & dearest friends, because we're both strong enough to entertain an educated discussion such as this. But also to Julie, because I'm a little disturbed by the classification of a Non-Christian holiday as "evil" when it comes from another religion.

MS: halloween, easter, and christmas are NOT Christian holidays...

GH: MF, didn't JA say 'the evil side of halloween'? Is that the same as saying haloween is evil *because* if comes from another religion? I don;t know Julie and I can;t speak for her though, lol.

You don't see that halloween has an evil side?

MF: Wiccans are not Satanists. Their faith actually has nothing to do with the Devil that Christians believe in. Satanism was a counter culture movement of the late 1960's by a charlatan who wanted to lash out at the organized Christian Church.

And how would you classify Christian denominations that do not also celebrate Yeshuah of Nazareth's day of birth, because they see it as an unholy vanity? Are they evil as well?

GG: Apparently not many and their preachers are not telling them. They are more worried about the numbers and the money that they will lose if they told the congregation the truth.

GH: MF,according to Encyclopedia.com's Electric Library:

...spirits were believed to roam the earth on this evening, playing tricks on human beings to mark the season of diminishing sunlight. Bonfires were lit, offerings were made of dainty foods and sweets, and people would disguise themselves as one of the roaming spirits, to avoid demonic persecution.

Every religion probably has its own definition of 'evil' but I think there is a concensus that 'evil' means doing harm to another. Every religion probably has its own definitions of what 'harm' is, but this definition I quoted from seems pretty straightforward.

As to the satanists view of halloween:

After one's own birthday, the two major Satanic holidays are Walpurgisnacht (May 1st) and Halloween (or All Hallow's Eve).
-The Satanic Bible by Anton Levey

JZ: See, and here I thought Boxing Day was the work of Satan. Well, that and Election Day.

MS: Halloween is a confluence of antecedents: satanic, wiccan, druidic, celtic, pagan, catholic...none of which are positive from a Judeo-Christian perspective...

MF: No, GH. I do not. There are plenty of other religious philosophies around the world that celebrate a communion with the spirits of the departed. The Feast of Samhain is a time that the Celts of Ireland believed to be the time of the year when the realm of the living & the realm of the departed were closest together, and they could celebrate reunion with their departed.

The whole "evil" aspect of Halloween was added as a scare tactic by the Catholic church in the Medieval period to bring the Celts into line with Church doctrine, hence the evolution of the holiday we have today.

Halloween has no more an evil side than the shameless consumerism that is perpetrated upon the masses having tarnished the tradition of Christmas. And don't get me wrong, I despise what has happened to Christmas.

GH: What followers of the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are told in Torah is that we are not to worship YHVH as the pagans worship their gods. We are told He wants to be related to in a different way than those ways and that we are not to mix His way with other ways. I do not think it matters whether the other way is 'evil'or not by conventional definitions. I think it has more to do with YHVH declaring Himself above all others, and our relationship with Him diferent than the relationship others have with their gods.

MS: Halloween is indeed a negative influence...as is the commercialism and erroneous history that is part of christmas...

MF: GH, you fail to see my point. Anton Levey was that charlatan that I mentioned, and you need only do a little more research into his life to see his motivation for creating Satanism. It's as much as sham as Scientology.

GH: I am curious MF, as to the timing of the origins of The Feast of Samhain you mentioned compared to the Celt's practice I mentioned. The one I mentioned does sound evil.

And I did understand your point. My mentioning the Satanist view was not in response to what wicans believe. I know the difference. I also know that many misguided people adhere to the principals of satanism, no matter the reason for its creation. But I understand it is diferent than wicca.

MF: You have to remember that the belief that a spirit realm co-existed with their own was a fundamental part of their culture, not unlike the Greeks, the Norse, the Egyptians, and numerous other cultures that existed long before the advent of Christianity. In fact, I do believe that Christians also believe in "spirit" world of sorts co-existing with their own. Why else would people believe in guardian angels or demons always tempting them to the dark side of their soul?

I'm not trying to shake anyone's faith with this discussion, but too many Christians come at these topics from a position of fear & ignorance.

MS is one of the smartest followers of Yeshuah I know, and I am proud that he is my friend despite our difference in religious ideology.

Thanks for the lively discussion, MS!

And to all of you, may the blessing of whatever Divinity you place your faith be upon you. Good night.

GH: Yes, MS, thanks. Too bad it couldn't be continued...

MF, thanks for the dialog. Maybe we'll meet up again on another one of MS's discusions!

GG: Wow who would have thought such a discussion would be necessary for any believer. It should be obvious to anyone that Halloween is pagan. Why look at how people dress up for it. Yes, some of the costumes are cute and are not so obvious but a good majority of the people dress up as witches, druids, skeletons and the likes of which are all the scriptures warn us about not to be involved with.

It is horrible that we even have to discuss this kind of stuff. But people want a sloppy grace to take them, zap them out of this world, so that they don't have to be here when the so called Rapture takes places....why they can just be raptured right out of here while the rest of the world goes to hell in a hand basket. WRONG!!!! We are all going to be purified and these people who think Halloween is okay to celebrate and it is okay to dress up and do trick and treating, and then bring their children home and have to check their candy to see if drugs or razors have been injected into them....well, what will it take for the church to get it right.

THE CHURCH HAS NO MORE BUSINESS HOSTING A FALL FESTIVAL, A SMOKE SCREEN OF A HALLOWEEN PARTY, THAN A SATANIST HAS OF HOSTING A SUKKOT FEAST DAY!

You can never mix what belongs to YHWH with the things of this world and come out blessed on the other end. Even if you think you have been blessed, it is only a matter of time, only a moment of time, we all stand to lose everything. Then we will all be repenting and asking for forgiveness for walking in the ways of the world.

Halloween is only one aspect of this. It is not just a holiday I am speaking of here. I am speaking of how the world has infested itself into believers and we just think that it is okay when it is oh so WRONG!!!

CS: Hi,I am a Christian,I do not celebrate Halloween,and the church never encouraged me to do it.I came from Italy and the prevalent religion came from the catholic church,they celebrate all saint day,which I believe it is wrong and so it is Halloween(we do not have this feast in Italy).Maybe history shows that there was Anti-Semitism,but the church today prays for the peace of Israel.By church I mean the body of Christ,the people,by calling myself a christian I mean a follower of Christ not a religion.I do believe there is a spirit world,angels and demons,the Bible conform that.There is a natural world where we human live and a supernatural world,the spirit world influence our mind for evil or for good.
Some christian during Halloween chose to have alternative parties for their kids,or to give to the kids that come at the door,booklets of the gospel and candy,because the kids do not know about Satanic holyday,they only see candy, treats

MS: I will have to answer more on this later...

JZ: AMEN! My wife 100% agrees with you (re: election day)

GH: I never said to stop the discussion...

MF: Regardless of what Anton Levey states, Wiccans worship Satan in the form of the "oak god" and ...trust me, I lived with Jay Conner...I witnessed some of their rituals.

Halloween is a combination of 3 holidays - Samhain, which is the true source of Halloween; All Saint's Day & All Souls' Day (the Catholic Church's version of Samhain). With the exception of the Catholic Church still celebrating All Saints' Day, the "celebrations" have been rolled into a single day/night.

SC: See the way I look at it, if they (Christians) are going to celebrate other pagan holidays, why not celebrate them all!

JA: In defense of myself ... heheheh ... I lived in a place where Halloween was a high holy day of Wiccans and Satanists (there's really no difference except if one wants to believe there are white witches and black witches, and that ONE man Anton Levay started it all - if my Bible serves me, Satan started it all in the Garden and even before in the spiritual realm when he wanted to be 'like God') where I personally knew of child sacrifices - either you believe that this holiday is detestable as God says in Deuteronomy 18:10-12 or you don't - it's always a choice who we serve and who we believe - as Bob Dylan says, 'you gotta serve somebody - either the devil or the LORD' - all religions come from someone other than the most High God - YHVH - and since I believe in the devil and him being the god of this world, I do believe that all other religions are not of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, inherently evil and do not offer salvation out of a loving, forgiving Father who desires us to have a relationship with Him ... Thank you, Michael and Gail for reminding us all that the worship of dead people is forbidden, the basis of the religion of Egypt that YHVH called is people up out of ... Let's also remember that Jesus/Yeshua - WWJD?? - never celebrated Halloween nor any other holiday that comes from the pagan nations around us - I also believe that a spirit world co-exists around us, there are plenty of mentions of this in Scripture, and again, we have choices - Suzy, that's cool - until Christians really understand the seriousness of Halloween, worshipping the dead and death, they won't ever be able to truly see how pagan all the other holidays are ... Finally, as far as Christians who don't celebrate Christmas or other pagan holidays, but also don't celebrate the Feasts - well, they're missing a GREAT blessing and deeper understanding given to us by our Creator. Wow, Matt, can't wait to see you this weekend - what a THREAD!

CS: In Italy for all saints, November first,they have this weird tradition for the kids,the good kids get toys and pure sugar statue(not very healthy) and amond paste fruit shaped pastries.The bad kids had to worry for a visit from the devil.I grew up with this,not my choice,but my parents,I do not like that memory at all,I always tought it was spooky,the dead people,the devil..etc.

SM: I thought Halloween was taking all of my daughters GOOD candy and leaving her with the crap candy.

CS: We have celebrated in the church October 31,on this day in 1517, a German monk, Dr. Martin Luther, courageously published the simple, straightforward truth of the Bible, God's Word, which he had rediscovered after a long and intense spiritual struggle which earned him the wrath of the church, the Bible came into the hands of the common people again.Reformation day

MR: It occurred to me while studying the required feasts:
Rosh Hashana is the natural New Year, according to the way this planet works. Right afterward we have the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) and Sukkoth. If a person doesn't celebrate these festivals of life, they will get stuck with celebrating a festival of death a few weeks later. It's just part of the natural order.

JA: Amen MR - it goes even further, after the celebration of death, then they celebrate the birth of their Savior - such a dichotomy and so profound - if we don't celebrate the Feasts of the Lord, obey his commandments, then we make up and do our own thing - isn't that humanism?

JZ: SM: ROFL! Make sure to save me Butterfingers and Three Musketeers. Keep the wax fangs and Good 'N Plenty's. Chelsea will be lucky if she gets an M&M this year!

TB: I don't like tootsie rolls.

SM: Haha! Yes BUTTERFINGERS! Layla doesn't eat candy....yet....so I will really score! TB - I love eating and doing the Tootsie Roll - Halloween is a dancing and delicious time!

What this blog is about.

On my Facebook page I have been starting to put up questions that appear easy to answer, yet require much thought. So, as those discussions come to a close I will be reposting them here in a manner in which is easy to read.

I also do a lot on Twitter and repost various things from different people that I "follow". Some of those may end up on here as well.